May 25, 2001
Subject: Art?
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:29:54 +1000
From: "John Gresser" <john.gresser@vinnies.org.au>
To: <almalopez@earthlink.net>
Dear Alma,
You seem to think that freedom of speech gives you the right portray the Blessed
Virgin Mary in this manner. Somehow, your "being Catholic"
reinforces this position.
If you did a similiar image of the mother of a religious figure from the American
Indians, Jews, Muslims or Buddists I do not think that they would really respect
you "freedom of speech". You have targeted a specifically
Catholic icon because you know that we will not burn your house down.
If you would produce an image like the one I have mentioned above, and I know
you will not, leave your picture at the art gallery. Otherwise, please
stop this affront to the Mother of God and remove this piece from the exhibition
today.
I, along with many others, will continue to pray for you. We will not
burn your house down.
John Gresser
Subject: integrity
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 07:52:21 -0600
From: "markwest" <eeeeeee72@hotmail.com>
To: <almalopez@earthlink.net>
I love Alma's work...the church has kept the
female in bondage for thousands of years and now as the female starts to claim
and take back her power the church can't stand it. the upset people of Saint
FEMALE/Santa Fe are victims of the church mind set and are the perfect exsamples
of people without sexual integrity and blindly follow the lies the church
has tried to cover up for years now and glady do the work of taking away our
right to FREE SPEECH. The church has done this for so long now most people
think it is normal to not have a sexual body that is awake and WOW might have
some integrity to it. Certainly people in denile of there sexual body should
not be judging others about there sexuality. Don't forget each and every one
of us comes from 2 people deciding to have sex.
Thank you ALMA for what might be a far over
due shaking up of the church and people who hold each other in bondage. I'm
want to Thank Alma for having the will to stand behind her work. And begin
to undo the shackles the church and men have had in place over this beautiful
female energy that is so vital to our creativity. Time for a balance of both
female and male!!
What is the church so afraid of? What are the
people in Santa Fe so threatened by? Perhaps it is about getting your face
on the camera?
These people who are so upset in Santa Fe are so dosile when it comes to what has happened to there town it has been taken over by outsiders who came in and bought up everything from poor locals who were only to glad to sell they are a sleepy bunch when it comes to protecting there town from becoming a suburb of LA. and yet something about the female energy coming to life and YIKES peoples lives are being threatened. I wish I could reveal my ID here but I was born in Santa Fe 5th Generation Hispanic/Indian/White male who is tired of hearing about this Dam It!! It's ART!!!
Subject: [AztlanNet: ARTS|LETTERS] For All The
People Who Are Prosecuting Alma Lopez
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:52:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lizette Sanchez <joeyspouch2004@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
This is the message to all the people who are
going after Alma Lopez and her artwork. I can't believe so much hate is being
generated over a piece of artwork.
Why can't we put this energy to good use? There
is other stuff to worry about than just a piece of art.
Look around your neighborhoods, your community.
Isn't there something you would like to change? Maybe educating our young
people. Taking drugs off the streets. Going after child molesters and cleaning
up our streets. Where has the love gone? Come on people let it go and move
on with your lives. Its art if you don't like it then don't look at it and
pay no mind to it. Just go on with your lives. Thank you!!
What is love?
"Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks not evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the true; bears all things, believes in all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails." 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Subject: Re: *Our vains/veins have been slashed*
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:07:24 -0700
From: "gilbert lujan" <magu4u@hotmail.com>
To: dadsacp@hotmail.com, dorinda@pacbell.net, carla@niti.org, czumwalt@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU,
rich@latinopapi.com, conzafos@aol.com, almalopez@earthlink.net
Because of having spent alot of time con Los
Hermanitos de nuevo Mejico ( algunos Penitentes ) your comments are heart-felt,
and has caused me great sadness.
The larger issues at hand, are tearing at our
belief systems; religious, cultural and as a Raza.
Our divisions are hostile, and embittered, que
lastima. It isn't always a Califas / Nuevo Mejico split as there is plebe
in both places with both opinions.
I believe, in respect and freedom of speech,
both would serve us better than the pleitos.
I believe, in Alma and her work and can safely
assert that she didn't intend to cause this reaction.
I also believe, in respecting cultural differences
other than my own.
Ultimately we have a difficult situation that
like in the middle East has deep divisions.
May we be granted the wisdom to overcome the
pettiness and to acheive and claim the unity we desire in spite of the differences.
con todo corazon
Magu
Subject: Re: [AztlanNet: ARTS|LETTERS] The Mexican
People
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:39:27 -0700
From: Dorinda Moreno <dorinda@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
References: 1
pedro, puro pedo. you have no respect for ideas not your own. each subscriber has the right to their feelings, beliefs without your slamming on each because they differ from yours. you have a right to post, but not try to crawl into the brain of everyone with whom you have disagreement. who appointed you god? or ultimate tilmista? those are beliefs not proven fact. my beliefs differ than yours but i will not beat you up for the way you choose to believe. but, i will box your ears on line when you continue to disrespect the postings of others who don't agree with you. you are not winning favor here. go paint a tilma or write an 'ultima'... show us your art not your attitutude... dorinda
Subject: Re: [AztlanNet: ARTS|LETTERS] The Mexican
People
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:47:53 -0000
From: "Pedro Romero Sedeno" <romesedeno@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
La Tilma is SACRED, Alma y fans, what part of SACRED don't you understand?. Alma-Net supporters consistently avoid any discussion of the "relationship" of the Mexican cultural identity fostered by the Tilma Guadalupana. Lizette Sanchez, please consider that Mejicano/as are people too, and here in Santa Fe many are actively involved in this struggle: a lucha against ignorance about the Mejicano y NuevoMejicano relationship to Our Lady of Guadalupe. Lissette, stop blaming the victim. Where is "love" and respect for their loving sentimientos para la Virgen, and their cultural pride in Her? Alma supporters are quite religious in their efforts to defend Alma's right to express her "relationship" to the Guadalupe, do they care about their Mexican sisters' relationship to Her? Ya basta with Alma's ego defenses: By the same token, I could say I have a "relationship" to a poster of Marilyn Monroe or Gloria Trevi , or a "relationship" to G.W. on the dollar bill. Alma's defense of her work es puro pedo, puro-pseudo. She has betrayed the Guadalupano tradition of Mexico with her talent.
Y de Dios, que? She admits her poster
is not devotional art to the Virgen; then it must serve as devotion
to something else: Alma's ego and ambition?
A significant relationship with Nuestra Senora
de Guadalupe, a spiritual relationship, a holy relationship, requires devotion,
loyalty, worship of Her sovereignty and integrity, in the godhead con Jesus,
in your life and how you live and "love" people, youth, your
barrio, all that. The image of La Guadalupe is not a Charmin-toilet-paper
logo or Sirena for Alma to "appear" (?) from her image-morgue
to scan into her computergod, for her to use "any which way" as
per her rationalization. La Tilma is SACRED, Alma y fans, what part
of SACRED don't you understand?. Alma's poster-idol, called "Our
Lady", is an attempt to destroy the traditional values which have
served to foster functional Mexican families for centuries, y tambien aqui
en Aztlan. . Guadalupe rules our hearts with the love you know via Corinthians,
Lissette. Teach Her message to the children, to empower our youth, nuestros
hijos y hijas. Trust in Guadalupe. She is faithful. Alma's illusions
are meaningless to Her. Guadalupe says to our youth: "You are somebody,
You are loved unconditionally. "Love, devoid of truth, beauty and goodness, is but a sentiment - a psychic illusion, a philosophic distortion, a spiritual deception." "Love is a word for a big category". "Love is the desire to do good to others". "God is a loving Parent." "God is love" -the Urantia Book 1955
Subject: Re: [AztlanNet: ARTS|LETTERS] KSXY,
Dorinda
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:11:31 -0700
From: Dorinda Moreno <dorinda@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
References: 1
pedro, you can continue to show your nalgas if you want to i could care less, yes, i urge to delete you because you have not one thing new to add that all don't already know, you stay on the smae channel. i will repond to you when you pounce on a subscriber, that is my commitment to this listserve. but what you have to see about me or anyone is seen as coming from an empty space between your hate and your cultist devotion to rigidity and calling it love. hmmm... you can call me anything you want, i am solid in the me that i am. dorinda
Subject: Re: [AztlanNet: ARTS|LETTERS] KSXY,
Dorinda
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:49:24 -0000
From: "Pedro Romero Sedeno" <romesedeno@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
"What's good for the goose is good for
the gander, dah-link"" If Alma Lopez can have the nerve to
put Guadalupe's loving hands on Sirena's tits, I will comentar ala Radio KSXY
all I want, even until gbejarano's hell freezes over, and then some.
Alma Lopez threw out any regard for "respect" when she perverted
La Guadalupe for her poster gig, as per her website, I will
not respect ignorance, capice? You are a hypocrite, Dorinda, with your
junior-high call to "delete" Pedro. Grow up. >
If you would start using your brain about this issue, I wouldn't
have to be "crawling into your brain" about it.
Alma's idol-poster is in my community here and her defenses of her work are built on lies about my community, and it is her lies about my community that drew me into this dialogue in the first place. Alma's revolt against Guadalupana values shall not go unadressed. Nor CyberArte's travesty and MOIFA hypocrisy. Worship her idol all you want. . I think about Alma's artpeak only because I think about la Guadalupe Tonantzin
FIRST. Es una verguenza que hace este Museo contra lo que es Mejicano/a. Think first of God. Dios primero,mi raza. Mejico! "ella quien no sabe respetar, que aprende!" - a voice from the Santa Fe art community, c/s
Subject: Our Lady
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:05:14 -0400
From: Joann Boscarino <jobosc@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: Princeton University
To: almalopez@earthlink.net
Dear Ms. Lopez,
I love your depiction of the Guadalupe, it is
beautiful. A co-worker gave me the link to your web site, knowing of my interest
in the subject. I am an artist and am compelled to paint images of Our Lady
(acrylics/canvas). I also made one entirely out of pasta, and often wonder
if this would be considered sacreligious. This seems impossible to me, because
I cannot make anything without a spiritual connection through which ideas
and inspiration flow. Creating images of the Guad for me is an act of devotion,
not devaluation. Is it ok if I print your picture to add to my ever-growing
Guad collection?
Best regards--
Lucky Jo (JoAnn Boscarino)
ps-the Pasta Guadalupe is showing June 2-Sept. 1 at the "Be" Gallery on Cookman Street in Asbury Park, NJ (near the train station). Thanks.
Subject: Re: [AztlanNet: ARTS|LETTERS] The Mexican
People
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:02:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lizette Sanchez <joeyspouch2004@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
I am not here to debate with you, senor. Just
wanted to say my peace. I am not putting you down for your beliefs. If anything
I respect it and the Guadalupe herself.
I also believe that Alma has the right to do what she is doing. This is her artwork. And this is her expression of what she feels. New Mexico invited her to show her work. Alma did not force these people at the museum to show her art. They came after her. You won't have to suffer much more. The artwork will come down in October and you can go back to your normal lives again. I just want all this hate to stop. Let it go, por favor.
Subject: Re: [AztlanNet: ARTS|LETTERS] The Mexican
People
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:29:16 -0700
From: Dorinda Moreno <dorinda@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
References: 1
yes, i expected it and it is no surprise. as long as you stay quiet they think they can get over. you respond and they go haywire... but, there are so many great men and minds to balance the cuckoo clock clones that come every hour on the hour to harrang... i am glad for sisterhood and for the progressive personhood of those who can differ and not have to shoot each other by words or warts. yea to jimid on this one, and to gilhuelga, el bulldog, urrutia, magu, calaca, chiliverde... and all the others who have spoken up on behalf of freedom of speech, choice, and preferance... some people are light years ahead of the others and some prefer to stay clutching on to straws. adelante mujeres!!!!! que viva la lupe. y las alma, las esperanzas y las aventadas. dorinda
Subject: [AztlanNet: ARTS|LETTERS] unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:26:00 -0800
From: "richard castaniero" <cast@ucla.edu>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: <AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com>
---Original Message----chicl wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> Date: Wednesday, May 23, 2001, 1:28 PM +0000
> From: RR2001RR@aol.com
>
> Yes. I agree wholeheartedly with Miguel. During this whole controversy,
I
> haven't known whether I should be laughing in public... that all this
> devotion to this Mexican image... by people who mostly wouldn't be caught
> dead identifying as Mexican. The hatred against Mexicanos is so extreme
> that it makes you wonder what this is really all about?
>
> Roberto Rodriguez
> Column of the Americas
>
> ---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Love Our Lady
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:37:51 -0500
From: dunckel5@swbell.net
To: almalopez@earthlink.net
Dear Alma,
I saw your image in a newspaper article in the
San Antonio Express News. I was stuck by her beauty and power. Thank you for
making this piece.
Sarah Dunckel, SA artist
Subject: Digital Print of Our Lady
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:07:46 -0600
From: "Stephen A. Vaughn" <stephen.vaughn@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: <vaugh_stephen_a@alum.mit.edu>
To: <almalopez@earthlink.net>
I thank you for your portrayal of Our Lady.
As a Catholic, I am grateful for the joy which it contains. I am saddened
by the anger and divisiveness which many people have taken in using this piece
for other purposes, rather than the work itself.
I am pleased to see computer-generated art coming to fruition. Do you
have a representation of this work on line? The picture on your web
site is at 72 dpi, and very coarse. Do you permit the viewing of your
work on line?
I would enjoy greatly the opportunity to correspond with you further on your
work.
As for now, I merely wish to express my gratitude
for your art.
Stephen A. Vaughn
Albuquerque, New Mexico